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I read your office story while lurking and it doesn't surprise me. I've been in a wls group since 2002 and the couple of DSers are still holding on to their weight loss.
The scary stuff I'm referring to are the deficiencies people can't seem to reverse. Stomach issues. Chronic diarrhea. The stuff surgeons throw at you! I'm definitely leaning towards the DS, I'm just scared. I have only been a diabetic for 4 years, but it's gotten worse with every pound I've gained as I approach what is possibly looking like early menopause. I started insulin injections 3 times a day a couple weeks ago and it's still not great....this is not the life I want. I've been on blood pressure meds since I was 19, my body hasn't worked right for a long time.
What is your take on weight set point with the DS? Any thoughts on this?
appreciate your detailed reply!!
Jen
It is unlikely that anything BUT the DS will fix your issues, including the diabetes, for good. The rate of resolution of type 2 is 95% with the DS. And you will have low cholesterol. The rest of your issues will resolve with weight loss. My H had the DS for diabetes in Spain in 2004. All of his diabetic retinopathy went away completely. He had the switch only because he was not a lot overweight. And BTW the resolution of the diabetes is usually almost immediate postop and that means it is NOT related to weight loss. That should speak volumes to you.
I had my surgery in 2003 and I have never had issue 1. None. Nada. There is nothing I can't eat but I still diet and have to choose wisely. I can eat a normal meal. You would never know I had surgery unless I told you. I am always still trying to lose weight. I was never thin. I just look like a normal old bag who could stand to lose a few pounds. And most of that is because I never had any plastics.
I do have a hernia. It COULD be DS related. Or not! I got it 2009. I will be getting it repaired in 2020 and I am hoping to get a panniculectomy at the same time. If I get this done, I will look a LOT thinner. If I try to extrapolate, without the hernia and the panni I would most likely wear a size 6 or 8.
I eat low carb. I try to get consistent exercise. 98% of the time I take all my supplements every day. It's no big deal. I have 1 organizer for AM and another for PM and I fill them up once a week.
Let me tell you a little story. 10 people in my office had WLS in the same time frame. 1 band, she never lost a pound. 8 RNY, 7 of these people weigh more now than they did when they had surgery. And 1 DS, me. So in the still quasi normal category is me and 1 RNY person.
I chose the DS because it works. I believe in the think twice, cut once theory. The others just don't work well and many never lose or regain. Read the revision boards. You usually won't find DSers there. What scary stuff? I was more afraid of what my future would be if I did nothing! And the other options looked a lot more miserable than life post DS.
Surgeons want to sell you the surgery they do. Just like the Toyota salesperson wants you to buy a Toyota. They want your money. The only way to get HONEST information from a surgeon is to see one who routinely does all the surgeries, including the DS. Always follow the money. Surgeons are human too.
Most people on the planet are D deficient. You should be taking D, iron, calcium, and a multi vitamin every day already. The time to start working on all this is now.
SIPS/LOOP/SADI are DS look alike surgeries. Surgeons like them because they are easier and take less time. They are relatively new and usually still labeled experimental. This means insurance won't pay and if your surgeon submits to insurance as a DS, it could be fraud. Some people have done well with them and others have not. A LOT more studies need to be done. One study that came out maybe a year ago showed people losing all their malabsorbtion of fat VERY quickly and that screams increased chance of regain to me.
AHA... I found the study. https://www.soard.org/article/S1550-7289(17)30428-8/pdf#/art icle/S1550-7289(17)30428-8/fulltext And it's worse than what I remembered. At 1 year none of the SADI people showed ANY fat malabsorbtion left. This is not a great study but there is not much info out there.
Best of luck to you!
on 7/10/19 5:42 pm
I did extensive surgery and have worked in health care for 37 years. I do not need you to tell me what I did and did not do. I am entitled to my opinion and this is a screwed up procedure. Do not message me back I am not interested in debating with you. Good luck
on 7/10/19 5:40 pm
Yes His name does start with an H and it is not in California.
The hospitals he worked in are not allowing him to do the procedures any longer.
It is very serious and I regret it. I am slim but I have a whole host of issues that are extremely serious. I feel it has ruined my life. If it were not for a prominent surgeon in a different health system *****vised me in 2007. I would be dead.
I am only age 57. I think folks need to realize that any of these procedures are only a tool to weight loss and not a cure. Ultimate behavioral modification and lifestyle change are the only way to keep the weight off for good. I no longer enjoy eating food. I only eat to live, not vice versa. I am happy for those doing well. I would never advocate for anyone doing this drastic procedure.
I gave you the stats that fewer than 2% have your outcome. I am sorry you didn't do well. We weren't healthy when we came to DS. I was very fat, very sick and if I hadn't taken the risk, I'd be dead.
- I have had anemia needing iron transfusions. I attribute it to the wrong iron (I needed heme iron) and not taking it with vitamin C. Now, it's 2 years without needing iron infusions, so for me, it was doing the wrong thing. I could have done better if I had asked enough questions. So it's a matter of education, using the right iron in the right dose, with vitamin C with every dose, without dairy food.
- by definition we have short gut syndrome. Most of our small intestine is bypassed. Don't mess around with the DS. It isn't for people who want to just cut and go, and don't want to work at it. You have to drink fluids, eat protein, and think about it a lot. Fact.
- People who who are morbidly obese die early. I was terrified when I weighed 300 pounds and had diabetes. That's why I had Bariatric Surgery. No guarantee I would survive after surgery, but I had NO chance as super morbidly obese with diabetes and hypertension at age 55 who couldn't exercise. Sure, I might have died after DS, but I knew I was going to die early as a morbidly obese woman with hypertension and diabetes. I took the risk and it worked out for me. I knew I had a risk of not doing well, but I knew I was going to die without taking the risk..
- I don't know what you mean by archaic. The good surgeons evolve in their technique, but there are many patients who have done very well, including me. Patient selection is critical. Some patients should not get the DS if they aren't smart enough or compliant enough with aftercare. If you aren't going to work at it, stay away. I see my surgeon once a year and get blood tests twice a year. I work at it every day. I read studies all the time, I have a great bariatric nutritionist, and I ask a lot of questions. my surgeon says he wants an I Q test for patients, because DS is NOT for everyone.
- there are terrible surgeons, as you know as a nurse. Picking the right surgeon is the key to long term outcome. Please tell us who your surgeon was. He either had a very bad day, or he just shouldn't be doing D S.
- You are not the only one who hasn't had a perfect outcome. The stats are in support of taking the risk, in my view, but some people do not well despite picking a great surgeon. Good of you to point that out. But being morbidly obese is not a formula for a long life of disability-free years. Not a great choice, but the only one I had.
Going without surgery or having surgery is a tough choice. Too bad we weren't naturally thin. If DS want available, I would have had a different procedure. But without DS I would either be fat again, or on insulin for my diabetes, or dead. No good choices, but being morbidly obese was a greater risk.
I am a lifelong healthcare professional. I went into the operating room hoping I would come out ok. I did and I am so sorry for you. I could have easily had your outcome.
I see new people who have to make this choice. Good for you to say it isn't 100% perfect, but good for them to know what risks to take. Be well. Thank you for contributing your experience.
on 7/10/19 4:38 pm
My experience is not unusual. There used to be a forum that was taken down. I have spoken the truth and I don't have to prove anything to you or anybody else. I am an advanced practice nurse with 37 years of experience.
I have looked after many of these patients in my state who had repeated hospital stays with dehydration, malnutrition, short gut syndrome and ultimately those I personally sent to the morgue. Do what you have to do but this procedure is archaic and very very dangerous.
Get to know your doctors well. You will be seeing them quite a bit for the years to come. Good luck.
The anemia is not easily treated due to the malabsorption so IV modalities are required. oH did I mention you will likely lose all your hair also.
Good luck. You were warned.
Hi everyone! I've been lurking around for a while and greatly appreciate all the information from everyone!
I had the lap band in 2002 and removed in 2009, so I've been around the world of WLS for many years. I'm finally taking the plunge for another surgery and I am in the early stages now of trying to decide what's right for me and scheduling consults. I have ruled out 1. RnY 2. Sleeve. So that leaves me with DS...or SIPS. I searched and can see that SIPS isn't widely accepted around these parts or there aren't very many recent posts that I can find.
When I first discovered SIPS I was sold and felt deep down it was the surgery for me. It had all the things I wanted my WLS to be: Sleeve stomach, better weight loss than RnY, not as drastic as DS, pyloric valve intact, less invasive surgery, lower risk of deficiencies and GI issues. But then I felt like if I'm going that far why not go all the way to DS and be sure I've done EVERYTHING possible to get healthy?
Then I came here and read many many posts and I'm scared of DS again. I'm really concerned with the long (LONG) term consequences of this surgery and seeing a lot of posts from people 10-18 years out having brand new issues, which is what the first surgeon I spoke to told me would happen. He was 100% adamant that I would regret the DS (not right away, but 8-20 years down the road) and it's not a popular surgery for a reason and no way, don't do it. He does not perform DS, so I'm waiting to meet with 3 surgeons who do, but meanwhile....can you guys answer some questions?
1. How far out are you and what issues have you faced?
2. How did you get over the scary stuff and decide to go for the DS?
3. What's your take on SIPS - not comparing to DS, but comparing to RnY?
4. Who and where was your surgeon?
I'm 44, 52 BMI, Type II diabetic, Sleep apnea, hypertension, and high cholesterol. I've got it all. I also have IBS, history of anemia and Vit. D deficiency and supposedly GERD, but don't have typical reflux symptoms, just vocal/mucous issues. This makes choosing DS difficult because I don't want to end up even more unhealthy than I already am.
I appreciate any feedback you can provide!
Jen
Hi Patty,
I am new here and looking to have either the DS or SIPS. I had the lap band in 2002 and removed in 2009, so I've been scared of pulling the plug on something as serious as DS and I've never been a fan of the RnY and VSG isn't enough. I had wished for something like DS, but not as severe, then I stumbled on to SIPS and have been researching both SIPS and DS for a few weeks. I'm consulting with 3 surgeons, one who does SIPS. Can you tell me why you advise avoiding SIPS?
Thanks so much!
Jen
Jewels
The DS saved my life in two ways. First, from all the obvious co morbities that come from obesity. Second, just 5 months after my surgery, due to rigorous post OP labs I was dxd VERY early with Acute Myloid Leukemia AML.
This early diagnosis and the grace of almighty God, certainly saved my life. That was over six years. Before I had the DS I was looking for a removal of a lap band and I was headed to a bypass. I had dozens of friends and co workers who'd had the bypass and regained.
I researched a ton and actually self paid because I was so convinced the DS was the very best option. I've maintained my 120 lb lost with little to no attention to carbs but I am ubber vigilant about my vitamins and protein.
I had my ds and lap band removal with a hyetal hernia repair in one procedure. I recovered very fast with no complications.
Best wishes with your decision.
Blessings
Julie
Who was your surgeon (the name doesn't happen to start with "H" does it)?
The DS is a complex surgery, and as a result it tends to attract the best and most attentive surgeons, but there were a few surgeons back then (my wife had her DS in 2005 also) who got in over their heads, or thought that they had a "better idea" (like 20cm common channels, etc.) with the expected results, similar to what you have experienced. Such problems are very rare amongst patients whose surgeons stuck to the established standards of care for the DS and who are compliant with their supplements and lab follow ups. In addition to the folks here on this forum who have done well over the years, we have a dinner support group with a bunch of vets, mostly in the 10-20 year range, who likewise are doing well with only minor glitches along the way, many of which are indistinguishable from ordinary aging.
The DS is serious medicine, and should be taken seriously by all involved - patients and doctors alike. I went with the VSG instead as I didn't need that strong of a tool, but that does preserve that option for the future. For those who do need the stronger medicine, nothing else comes close in its effectiveness - neither the RNY nor the VSG.
1st support group/seminar - 8/03 (has it been that long?)
Wife's DS - 5/05 w Dr. Robert Rabkin VSG on 5/9/11 by Dr. John Rabkin