Thinking of going vegetarian...

H.A.L.A B.
on 11/22/11 2:23 am
You need Omega 3' to improve your HDL. 
But fish oils are better than Flax seed to do that.
You can also eat some nuts - like walnuts, almonds (nut butter will have higher absorption) Other nuts - may have more omega6's than omega 3's.
You can use flax and almond oil on your skin after shower - it gets absorbed through the skin..
Also exercise with help you raise your HDL...

And .. too low calories - as other people told you - will slow or stop your weight loss... 
But getting the calories from carbs - you will absorb more % (much more) than from fat or proteins... The carbs digestion and absorption starts in the mouth... (simple carbs, sugars)...

Hala. RNY 5/14/2008; Happy At Goal =HAG

"I can eat or do anything I want to - as long as I am willing to deal with the consequences"

"Failure is not falling down, It is not getting up once you fell... So pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again...."

Elia-B
on 11/22/11 2:35 am
Ya.. I've been horribly bad about cheating with carbs... not necessarily sweets but them too.  Do you have any suggestions of something appropriate I could snack on through the day that would would be good for getting me between meals?  Otherwise, I feel like my blood sugar drops or I just simply feel HUNGRY!

I'll give the flaxseed / almond oil on the skin a try.  Sounds like a good idea!

I have started exercising but I am still very inconsistent about it.  I'll get on a kick and then get sidetracked and it will take me awhile to get into a pattern again.

How many cals would you say I need to be getting in right now?
        
H.A.L.A B.
on 11/22/11 3:19 am

DS people may be better to give you that right now... But fat you absorb only 20%, proteins ...probably 40-50%, and carbs  (for safety reasons - I would assume - all of them)...

you probably need min 600-800 NET calories per day.
you need to get 100-150 gr of proteins (150 x 4=600 but that only net 300 calories)
then carbs (veggies, low glycemic fruits - apples, berries) = maybe no more than 40 gr = 160 calories.  = all calories)

300+160= 460..
800-460= 340 cal fat : for normal person that mean you need 30-38  gr fat per day...
but since you only absorb 20% of fat... that makes you need to get 150- 190 gr of fat per day... a lot... (190 gr x 20% = 38 gr ) 

lots of bacon, nuts, pork rinds, full fat cheese, avocado... full fat dressings on salads (make your own)...
I would not count the carbs in green leafy and non starchy veggies... (cabbage, lettuce, cucumbers, etc).

snacks: lots of avocado (omega 3's)... nuts,  bacon, pork rinds, full fat cheese...

The oil on your skin - use very little. A little goes very long way....
Mix 1/4 cup almond oil + 1/4 cup flax meal oil+ 1/2 oz  vitamin E oil (to prevent the oils going bad). plus some good essential oils - like lavender, patchuli, orange, jasmine, etc.) mix and keep in dark bottle in the bath. Use very little... very good for the skin, legs, ever dry hair (on hair - put on 1-2 hrs before washing).  A little goes very long way...

Hala. RNY 5/14/2008; Happy At Goal =HAG

"I can eat or do anything I want to - as long as I am willing to deal with the consequences"

"Failure is not falling down, It is not getting up once you fell... So pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again...."

Elia-B
on 11/22/11 3:30 am
Wow.. this is a LOT to think about.  I think I'll be going to the grocery store tonight!!!  AND, I believe that I will not only be tracking my cals again to see where I'm falling but I'm also going to do the calculation to see the cals the I'm absorbing to get a more true messure of if my body might think it's being starved.

I love the recommendation about the avocados.  Love them!  This is really going to change my approach to food.  I do think I'll stick with salads.. they go down easier.  But they will be full fat salads with hopefully no less than at least 10 grams of protein (egg, cheese, bacon... maybe even some ground turkey or dark chicken).

And, I'm going to start holding myself more accountable for my carbs.. treating them more like every gram matters.....

New beginning yet again - and hopefully with much more food satisfaction involved!!!

We will find out very soon if this jump starts my metabolism. 
        
Elizabeth N.
on 11/23/11 1:08 am - Burlington County, NJ
NO. First you consume THIRTY GRAMS of protein. THEN you consider a veggie.

Elia-B
on 11/23/11 1:51 am
 I've been meeting my protein goals - mostly through the help of protein drinks.  I suspect that per my labs I will need to increase them well above 100 grams/day, but for the moment I want to see what my labs say about my 9 mo - 12 mo protein goal of 100 grams/day.  If I weren't meeting my protein goal, I wouldn't be talking about eating a salad.  But, I'm happy for the salad given the protein is in place.  
        
Elizabeth N.
on 11/23/11 2:03 am - Burlington County, NJ
*sigh* You don't like to listen to accurate advice, I see.

You had a DS. This means your primary source of food for the REST OF YOUR LIFE needs to be animal source protein. You need to change your thinking. You also need to train your body to EAT REAL FOOD again. This is how you recover from starving yourself to death, which is what you have been doing by following those morons in your surgeon's office.

Yes, they are morons. What they are doing is IMNSHO no better than malpractice. You haven't gotten support from them. You have gotten advice that WILL KILL YOU if you continue to follow it.

So yeah, when I see so called medical professionals dishing out advice that will kill people, I resort to strong language. I'm funny that way.

Elia-B
on 11/23/11 2:51 am
You do have many good points.  Just to clarify, my protein drink of choice is animal based.  I use Jay Robb's Egg White protein powder.  I'm able to get in 50 grams of protein via my breakfast protein drink which goes a long way setting me up for meeint my protein needs for the day.  I've recently been adding a second protein drink around 3pm.  It seems to fll that gap between lunch and dinner and has the added benefit of getting me to 75 grams of protein for the day, not including what I'm eating through "real" food.  I had started having a protein drink for my lunch as well... but I was failing pretty miserably with that.  I was ending up going out and getting a (protein emphasizing) to go lunch.  And, the salads I've recently started enjoying in the evening are quite large.  I'm going to be making some adjustments to these salads - drop the croutons, add bacon and boiled egg.  I haven't decided about cheese yet but I'm only hesitant about because it seems to make the dish a little overwhelming to me... not sure why as I do love my cheese!  I'm very pleased with how my stomach has done with it's ability to handle real food... my only issue right now is heavy dense proteins.  As I understand it, the heavy dense protein issue will improve and I am looking forward to that.  In the meantime, I do eat a good solid meal of real food for both lunch and dinner and snack on real food quite a bit inbetween.  I do appreciate the advice I've received through this thread.  It has proved invaluable to me and I am making many adjustments based on the recommendations I've received.   I understand that you are coming from a place of a lot of experience but everyone's body is different and everyone's experience is different.  I am eager to learn from everyone.  And from what I learn from them, I will incorporate it as best I can and in a manner that I find to be healthy for me.  I understand that living with my DS will continue to be a process of adjustment for at least the next year, probably longer.   During that time I will continue to develop my skill and knowledge and awareness regarding my DS - and will continue to do so for the rest of my life.  So... as I continue forward, I will be eating "real" food as I have been doing since the time I was allowed to move off of free flowing liquids just after my surgery.  I enjoy steak, shrimp, fish, hamburger, frutis, and veggies.. and my stomach tolerates ALL of them tremendously well.  But for quality of life puproses and for the sake of ensuring certain goals are met, I will also continue to utilize protein drinks in a manner that fits my lifestyle and nutritional needs.  I appreciate your support.
        
Elizabeth N.
on 11/23/11 3:14 am - Burlington County, NJ
I am by no means anti-protein drink. I use them several times a week myself. They are like vitamins. They are not food, and you need to be educating your body and your mind in how to eat.

Of course you have to eat what you can tolerate. But this is NOT what you started out saying.

You are the one who said at the beginning that you did NOT tolerate dense proteins well. Your story is evolving over time. This is hopefully accurate. What you said at the beginning was that you did NOT tolerate the stuff you are now saying you enjoy and that you wanted to live on veggies and protein drinks. See why I'm being so confrontive about this?

I understand that it's a learning curve. But if you continue to believe any of the bull**** you were told by that insane NUT and whoever else at that office, you're going to be in trouble. Time to drop that whole concept and start over.

You need to drop the fruits for now, too. Carb intake begets carb intake.

Elia-B
on 11/23/11 3:56 am
I"m sorry if I gave the impression that I wasn't tolerating foods well.  In fact, I tolerate them very well.  However, having said that, I do not like the way dense proteins sit on my stomach.  I take a few bites and it feels a bit like cement sitting on my stomach.  It's frustrating becasse it lacks food satisfaction for me ... not in the taste but how it feels on my stomach.  It works through my digestive process just fine.  But, trying to get in my protein allotment for the day pushing dense proteins has begun to feel more of a chore and I found myself throwing more and more dishes of dense protein meals out.  I was throwing money away and I was unhappy with the food.  That got me thinking about veggies.  A well cooked veggie stis beautifully on my stomach and I'm able to sit down with a plate and feel like I've actually eaten a satisfying meal in both quantity and quality.  And...  as I've now learned I shouldn't even be trying to do .. I was trying to whittle down how many cals I was taking in.  The wt loss and slowed soooo much and I was concerned.  So, I had started trying to decrease my cals to get it close to the doc's recommendation.  Through this process, I was taking in less fat - which I think was leading my hands starting to ache.  I think I wasnt' getting in enough fat.  And, I was turning to carbs for snacking more and more - which was a big no no.  I knew it was a big no no but it had not registered how much it could be messing me up in my wt loss process.  I felt that the cals were lower going with some carb based munchies and I wasn't going huge on the carb based munchies... but I was doing too much.  

As for fruit.. I just mentioned it as an example of what my stomach can handle.  I'm not a big fruit eater at this point.  For one thing, I don't want to offend everyone's olfactory senses with the aftermath.  lol

And, again, my body loves food.. real food.  When I was trying to go more toward protein drinks with the attempted exclusion of real food, my body wasn't having it.  I could do a protein drink lunch for one day but then on the second day I had to have food.  I went to the near by deli and got a turkey sandwich with double the meat and ate half of it one day and the other half the next.  The meat was a good 2 inches thick and I enjoyed eating it very much.  But... I've also brought chicken dishs to work that were protein on top of protein with a good presence of fat.....  and that was getting really old.  It was turning into a chore.  Just no fun at all and growing increasingly impalatable.  So... for the sake of conserving cals and for the ease and the decrease pressure to eat eat eat foods that were sitting heavy on me, I turned to protein drinks more and more.   

I plan to continue to lean heavy on the protein drinks.  I'm enjoying them... their ease, their taste, the peace of mind of getting in plenty or protein without having to push....  But, I'm going to increase cals in the other real foods I'm eating.  I will probably still not push really hard on dense proteins at the moment - just because my enjoyment of them is still kind of low.  But, I'll add other high fat and hopefully protein rich foods to what I'm doing.  I'm looking foward to perfectly cooked cauliflower dressed in a yummy butter sauce.  Or a salad topped with avocado, bacon crumbles (the real stuff, not jarred), and egg.  And, someone suggested deviled eggs.  I would LOVE to try that.  I had thought of it once but it went against the calorie restrition from the doc's office.. but that's out the window now.  And, again, I was eating too many carbs.   There for awhile I was having a bowl of ice cream at night....  but I was also still losing wt.  The wt loss dropped to a crawl and the ice cream eating ended.  That's the point that I started trying to cut cals more and more and more.. tried to whittle them down a little here and a little there.  And, I was starting to stress because I just couldn't get myself to stick to a regimine that was getting in less than 1000 cals a day.  My head or my body.. they took turns.. would just start screaming hungry!!!  I had had cheese sticks at work.. but they have more cals than a few Cheese It crackers....  so, I was getting in a bad cycle with the carbs, oddly enough, as part of an attempt to keep overall cals down.  I get it -- big mistake.  

So... where I am now is increasing cals... probably mostly through the addition of fats.  And, keep carbs low.  I will work hard to keep them under 100 grams.  So far today, they are at about 35 grams... so I'm proud of where I'm at with that.  

Like I said, I appreciate everybody's input.  But, I do want it known that I'm working with my DS tool and not trying to pretend I don't have it.  I emphasize protein and protein is a part of every meal.  I'm very sensitive to my body's response to foods... sensitive as in aware.  I really focus on hearing what it's trying to tell me and I pay attention to cravings as a symptom of something else going on.  

So, I do hope that clarifies some of my language.  I wasn't intending for my story to evolve... it's more of a language interpretation issue.  I am thankful for my DS at an awe invoking level.  There is no way I could deny myself protein... my body simply would not allow that.  I would probably end up eating my own arm if I tried.  I love real food.  I eat real food.  I have been incredibly unsuccessful at making myself try to limit my real food intake (when trying to cut cals).  Having said that, I do consider veggies as in the real food category.  With some of the pressure off to get in all my protein via dense proteins (which is what I initially tried really hard to do early on), I am really looking foward to enjoying a selection of wholesome, low carb, real food veggies topped with butter and other fats.  From looking at the food calculator today (myfitnesspal - first day on it), I'm going to have to work pretty hard to get my cals up!  But.. as it's said... knowledge is power and I feel so much better about things since getting so much wonderful support and advice via the folks here at OH... specific to this thread and other questions I've had answered.  It's truly a Godsend.  OH is my primary source of information and guidance with regard to my DS.  Hands down.  I'd be lost without it.. and unhealthy... and unhappy.  So.. thank God!!!  Seriously.  
        
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