Obamacare hits home ~
Well, this is an interesting topic. I do appreciate the points of view from everyone, and offer my unique point of view as well...
Growing up, we had no insurance. I was one of those ER people as a kid. We made too much money for "welfare" (as my mom called it) and not enough to pay for anything. Our family doctor would write prescriptions for a gallon of Dimeatap at a time and we pretty much stayed sick all the time.
For my 18th birthday, I was sent bills from doctors and hospitals and called by collection agencies. I had no idea what they were talking about. My mom told me not to make payment arrangements because I was a minor at the time, so I didn't. There is no telling what is out there with my name on it as a minor.
When I got a job, I paid for my part of the insurance. Even saw a dentist for the first time in my life. Had no idea getting your teeth cleaned was any different from brushing your teeth before then.
Since then, I have always paid for my insurance. It was much more affordable and better coverage when I worked in the mainstream world. When I became a teacher, we were forced onto Teacher Retirement System Activecare thru Blue Cross TX because the state basically said we had to join then to get a discounted rate, or never have that option again. Working for a small district, they signed us up and we went from paying $178.00 a month for family coverage PPO plan, to over $500.00 a month for less coverage. Now, I am blessed with a $3000.00 deductible and $ 746.00 a month premium. With my 1.3% yearly step increase/raise to help with the 10% hike in insurance premiums and higher deductible amounts, that makes for a negative balance in my already meager paycheck. (http://www.bcbstx.com/trs/pdf/1011_planhighlights.pdf) And this is not the first year that I have basically lost money while getting a "raise".
I see this "Obamacare" option is just a larger scale version of our forced compliance in the TX system. Really stinks for the middle class, IMO.
If I were like one of my family members, on SS disability, Medicare, Food Stamps, Section 8 housing, and Medicaid for her kids, I would have the same quality of living. We basically have the same amount of "disposable" income... which is not much. While I am paying 150.00 a month for my son's braces, her son gets them for free. When I pay my copays for doctors offices and medicine, she doesn't pay anything for her kids. Being disabled is unfortunate, and I am not downing her for her situation, my point is that WE all pay in some way for others to be insured NOW. (And my premiums have been going up for YEARS, so you can't just hold Obama accountable for it... )
The only difference is for her Medicare which she pays a percentage of her income as her premiums. From what I am understanding Kirmy saying, in that system, they pay a percentage based on their income. Kind of like we have tax brackets over here. But hopefully it is not 25% of their income to insurance premiums, then 20% to taxes on top of that. Which is pretty much what I am doing.
There is not going to be a one size fits all plan in the US. Money is the number one reason why. But my life experience has shown me a view from a variety of perspectives. And each view is pretty dim. Guess that is what we get for not dying before 30 like in the 1800's, and showing those politicians that we can live past 62 in the twenty first century.
Growing up, we had no insurance. I was one of those ER people as a kid. We made too much money for "welfare" (as my mom called it) and not enough to pay for anything. Our family doctor would write prescriptions for a gallon of Dimeatap at a time and we pretty much stayed sick all the time.
For my 18th birthday, I was sent bills from doctors and hospitals and called by collection agencies. I had no idea what they were talking about. My mom told me not to make payment arrangements because I was a minor at the time, so I didn't. There is no telling what is out there with my name on it as a minor.
When I got a job, I paid for my part of the insurance. Even saw a dentist for the first time in my life. Had no idea getting your teeth cleaned was any different from brushing your teeth before then.
Since then, I have always paid for my insurance. It was much more affordable and better coverage when I worked in the mainstream world. When I became a teacher, we were forced onto Teacher Retirement System Activecare thru Blue Cross TX because the state basically said we had to join then to get a discounted rate, or never have that option again. Working for a small district, they signed us up and we went from paying $178.00 a month for family coverage PPO plan, to over $500.00 a month for less coverage. Now, I am blessed with a $3000.00 deductible and $ 746.00 a month premium. With my 1.3% yearly step increase/raise to help with the 10% hike in insurance premiums and higher deductible amounts, that makes for a negative balance in my already meager paycheck. (http://www.bcbstx.com/trs/pdf/1011_planhighlights.pdf) And this is not the first year that I have basically lost money while getting a "raise".
I see this "Obamacare" option is just a larger scale version of our forced compliance in the TX system. Really stinks for the middle class, IMO.
If I were like one of my family members, on SS disability, Medicare, Food Stamps, Section 8 housing, and Medicaid for her kids, I would have the same quality of living. We basically have the same amount of "disposable" income... which is not much. While I am paying 150.00 a month for my son's braces, her son gets them for free. When I pay my copays for doctors offices and medicine, she doesn't pay anything for her kids. Being disabled is unfortunate, and I am not downing her for her situation, my point is that WE all pay in some way for others to be insured NOW. (And my premiums have been going up for YEARS, so you can't just hold Obama accountable for it... )
The only difference is for her Medicare which she pays a percentage of her income as her premiums. From what I am understanding Kirmy saying, in that system, they pay a percentage based on their income. Kind of like we have tax brackets over here. But hopefully it is not 25% of their income to insurance premiums, then 20% to taxes on top of that. Which is pretty much what I am doing.
There is not going to be a one size fits all plan in the US. Money is the number one reason why. But my life experience has shown me a view from a variety of perspectives. And each view is pretty dim. Guess that is what we get for not dying before 30 like in the 1800's, and showing those politicians that we can live past 62 in the twenty first century.
The problem with the heatl systems worldwide are the same. Poor people and misplaced "compassion" Hospitals charge outrageous prices because they are forced to treat people who cannot pay. They then roll those charges into the bills of those who can pay. In essence the responsible paying for the irresponsible.
The preexisting acceptance is a joke. I wish we had this for cars. I could pay Allstate after I had an accident.
It cost me 1200 a moth to insure my family and I still had to self pay for surgery. The solution is to send the irresponsible to free clinic for the care someone is willing to give for free and let the people who can pay negotiate the best rate they can with the best providers they can afford.
Yes the more affluent will get better healthcare....BFD they live in nicer houses, drive nicer cars etc. The "poor" need to stop being parasites on all of us, we cannot afford it any longer.
REPEAL OBAMACARE NOW!!!!
Ms. Cal Culator
on 8/12/10 12:13 am - Tuvalu
on 8/12/10 12:13 am - Tuvalu
On August 12, 2010 at 5:19 AM Pacific Time, BlackLeatherRain wrote:
"The "poor" need to stop being parasites on all of us, we cannot afford it any longer."Sir, I salute the obscene level of selfishness in this post. Next time, I recommend that you note that the poor should consider feasting upon their own children to maximize the disgust level in your post.
Those kind of comments coming, as they have on this thread, from people who were MO, SMO and SSMO and who were likely on the verge of becoming a financial burden to all of us...because that's what happens as morbid obesity advances...is always amazing to me.
It always borders on idiocy...like one fool I recall who was always complaining about government picking up the tab for all the lazy people...as he collected unemployment between gigs as a cop at jobs where...oh yeah...the government (ie, the working poor and others he was complaining about) paid his salary and his medical insurance.
I also love hearing those who went to state-supported colleges complain about people who are "on the dole." My die-hard, right-wing neighbors preached independence...as she collected a paycheck from the local community college and her kid went to school there. (They moved and she now works for the Feds in TN. Still working even though she's on the downhill side of 65, because she needs a bigger government pension. lol) Meanwhile, this left-wing, bleeding heart liberal looking for a free handout (me) and her husband paid about $80,000 in tuition ALONE for our kid to go to a private college (and it costs a lot more now.)
It's like listening to all the right wingnuts along the Gulf Coast who hate big government as they ***** and moan about Obama not showing up soon enough after the BP rig blew. They have no idea that they are total hypocrites...and not too bright. They all ought to wear big signs that say, "I'm the only one who deserves any help at all." Oh, wait...they do.
Yes, you are correct - and there will always be those who consider the poor a faceless burden rather than individuals who are in need and in pain, or as families who desperately need help to care for their children. There will always be individuals who favor government that allows the rich to get richer on the backs of the working poor than to support an equitable solution to issues like this.
I grew up in a lower working class home. My parents grew up poor. But, it is the rich who create jobs for the rest of us. We need to stop demonizing them... I think most people do care. I have worked with many generous volunteers who willingly give their time and resources to other's in need.
HW/ 302 SW/287 CW/140 GW/135
I'm not demonizing them, and the "they create jobs" is a BS excuse for power-mongering. We provide them LABOR for them to get rich off of. It's a two way street.
"I think most people do care."
I actually don't disagree with this. Most people are good people. The vast majority of people are good people, even. But throw in religion and/or politics and a system designed to keep the majority of people at each other's throats over things that don't matter, and you get bills like this one that hardly begin to address the problem at hand.
The fact of the matter is that the insurance industry is glutting itself on people who want their health to be cared for - something that many of us believe is as much of a human right as is the right to not starve to death. I realize that some people disagree with this and believe that ACCESS to health care is the right in question, and only then if you have enough money to get to it. When the insurance industry was told that their practice of "pre-existing condition" exclusions and refusals for coverage were causing preventable deaths and that they must do something about it, they hoist the cost onto everyone else, keeping insane profits for themselves and doing little to re-evaluate how this got here in the first place.
You personally in this thread have expressed concern about tax rates if everyone is covered equally as citizens in this country. Did it not occur to you that the thousands of dollars spent per employee across the nation would likely supplement these increased taxes? If I'm paying $500/month for health insurance to Aetna through my employer (while my employer pays - what? Another $1000?) or if my employer and I cover the $1500 straight to the us government in taxes for single-payor healthcare, what's the difference in my take home pay? Nada. With a single payor system like those that have worked so well in Europe, I'd have the added benefit of no deductibles, guaranteed coverage despite pre-existing conditions, no co-pays (WTF is that **** anyhow? A disincentive to get regular preventative care), and I wouldn't have to stay at a dead-end job (as so many people do) just because I'd lose my benefits if I left. The money is here. It's already being spent, and far too much of it is going in the pockets of people who value their millions in salary and bonuses over the health of even those people who pay premiums and are routinely denied necessary care.
I really can't give less of a crap about the people who donate their extra clothes to goodwill and tithe to their churches on Sundays if they're allowing themselves to be frightened into submission on this issue because fox news said the word "socialist" in relation to the issue of health care. As long as the money in this country flows straight up the line to those who are bleeding the majority of us dry, the only 'trickle down effect" we'll be experiencing is the **** running off of our foreheads.
"I think most people do care."
I actually don't disagree with this. Most people are good people. The vast majority of people are good people, even. But throw in religion and/or politics and a system designed to keep the majority of people at each other's throats over things that don't matter, and you get bills like this one that hardly begin to address the problem at hand.
The fact of the matter is that the insurance industry is glutting itself on people who want their health to be cared for - something that many of us believe is as much of a human right as is the right to not starve to death. I realize that some people disagree with this and believe that ACCESS to health care is the right in question, and only then if you have enough money to get to it. When the insurance industry was told that their practice of "pre-existing condition" exclusions and refusals for coverage were causing preventable deaths and that they must do something about it, they hoist the cost onto everyone else, keeping insane profits for themselves and doing little to re-evaluate how this got here in the first place.
You personally in this thread have expressed concern about tax rates if everyone is covered equally as citizens in this country. Did it not occur to you that the thousands of dollars spent per employee across the nation would likely supplement these increased taxes? If I'm paying $500/month for health insurance to Aetna through my employer (while my employer pays - what? Another $1000?) or if my employer and I cover the $1500 straight to the us government in taxes for single-payor healthcare, what's the difference in my take home pay? Nada. With a single payor system like those that have worked so well in Europe, I'd have the added benefit of no deductibles, guaranteed coverage despite pre-existing conditions, no co-pays (WTF is that **** anyhow? A disincentive to get regular preventative care), and I wouldn't have to stay at a dead-end job (as so many people do) just because I'd lose my benefits if I left. The money is here. It's already being spent, and far too much of it is going in the pockets of people who value their millions in salary and bonuses over the health of even those people who pay premiums and are routinely denied necessary care.
I really can't give less of a crap about the people who donate their extra clothes to goodwill and tithe to their churches on Sundays if they're allowing themselves to be frightened into submission on this issue because fox news said the word "socialist" in relation to the issue of health care. As long as the money in this country flows straight up the line to those who are bleeding the majority of us dry, the only 'trickle down effect" we'll be experiencing is the **** running off of our foreheads.
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