Weight Wise Politics for patients who opted to have surgery out of province
After spending another thrilling night in an Emergency Room to be rehydrated last night, I have so many thoughts running around in my head.
I had the RNY in Montreal by Dr. CHRISTOU on Sept. 30 of 2008. I have spent most of the past few months throwing up every single day and crying as each Alberta doctor basically tells me I am screwed for post op help in Alberta because I chose to "skirt the system" or to go "outside of the system." They chastise me like I am a young child and ask me why I didn't know that "surgeons don't like to fix other surgeons' messes."
I was admitted to hospital in Alberta for the second time after throwing up soy milk in a dietician's office just before Xmas. I had a stricture (scar tissue) that had closed the joint between my stomach and small intestine and a brand new ulcer. (I was also hospitalized right after my surgery in Montreal when I arrived home because of what they called poor post op care and pain management by the surgical team.)
So while I might need the counsellors in the Weight Wise program because the dehydration and rapid weight loss has made me so weepy and emotional I think some weird things, or the help of the dietician - I can't access them because someone else did the surgery.
Of course, all of these doctors fail to realise that MY tax dollars and yours pay for the WW program and that honestly, I don't have much faith in the doctor I refinanced my home for to pay for the surgery in the first place. He got his money and is living in another city while I am here unable to work and support my two children.
I would like to hear about other people's experiences - good and bad - with accessing post op care and support in Alberta. I am seriously thinking about contacting the Minister of Health provincially and nationally to find out why the medical system is treating Canadians who were simply trying to become healthier in such a poor manner.
Fiona
I had the RNY in Montreal by Dr. CHRISTOU on Sept. 30 of 2008. I have spent most of the past few months throwing up every single day and crying as each Alberta doctor basically tells me I am screwed for post op help in Alberta because I chose to "skirt the system" or to go "outside of the system." They chastise me like I am a young child and ask me why I didn't know that "surgeons don't like to fix other surgeons' messes."
I was admitted to hospital in Alberta for the second time after throwing up soy milk in a dietician's office just before Xmas. I had a stricture (scar tissue) that had closed the joint between my stomach and small intestine and a brand new ulcer. (I was also hospitalized right after my surgery in Montreal when I arrived home because of what they called poor post op care and pain management by the surgical team.)
So while I might need the counsellors in the Weight Wise program because the dehydration and rapid weight loss has made me so weepy and emotional I think some weird things, or the help of the dietician - I can't access them because someone else did the surgery.
Of course, all of these doctors fail to realise that MY tax dollars and yours pay for the WW program and that honestly, I don't have much faith in the doctor I refinanced my home for to pay for the surgery in the first place. He got his money and is living in another city while I am here unable to work and support my two children.
I would like to hear about other people's experiences - good and bad - with accessing post op care and support in Alberta. I am seriously thinking about contacting the Minister of Health provincially and nationally to find out why the medical system is treating Canadians who were simply trying to become healthier in such a poor manner.
Fiona
I am wondering if you were involved with the program at the WW clinic? I don't want to make any wrong assumptions. So here is my take and sorry if I sound mean but I will give u my honest opinion.
I have been thru the process at the WW clinic and yes it was a long one, I waited my time, did my counseling and seen a dietitian for 1 1/2 years before have my band. Even then I had second thoughts. Could I have paid and gone to another surgeon? You bet...but I researched and seen that people where having a hard time getting post op care. The surgeons at the clinic don't want to worry about other Dr's Patients and really why should they?? They have a process that they follow for a reason...so people are educated on pre and post op. There are many Albertans who are on the list at the WW clinic waiting to get in let alone have surgery. We could all jump the line , go else where and the come back and expect them to help us thru the rough times but would that be fair for those who are following the protocol of the WW clinic?
Please don't get me wrong I really feel sorry that you are having a hard time and cant access the care you need, I also feel bad that you gave a surgeon that you don't have confidence in allot of money. I just think that the WW clinic should not be getting a bad rap because I can honestly say that they are allot of reason for my success.
Tammy
Thanks for your feedback, but I think that the criticism about the program is justified.
I was told by my GP at the time that it would take three to five years period to get the surgery that I needed. He also said that because I was not the largest person in line, that it could take much longer. I have worked with dieticians and have been successful to some degree, just couldn't get all the way there. With immediate family members dying at 40 from heart attacks, I just didn't feel I should take the chance and wait.
Of course I did research and believed first of all that the surgery would not be as difficult as it was, that i wouldn't have those complications in multiples right away and that I would get the proper support from the Quebec team.
I also had tremendous faith in the Alberta health care system (funny I know) that should I need it, it would be there to help me. By paying for my surgery, I freed up a spot in the line at Weight Wise. And actually, my tax dollars pay for that program anyway - why shouldn't I have access to it? Is it a better use of tax dollars to have me have to go to the ER regularly to get IVs for dehydration?
In Canada we have a universal health care system where discrimination should not be permitted. If they said, we want you to pay such and such to access Weight Wise support, I would seriously try to come up with the money and I have even asked the Quebec surgeon to put in place a system where they could pay for the aftercare if you are out of province to a simliar program like Weight Wise.
No one should have to lose 50 pounds in less than three months, vomit several times a day for two months not knowing why or most importantly, have her children see her cry and become extremely depressed because they are so ill and unable to live normally.
If more money is needed to accomodate people in an aftercare program for Weight Wise, lets work to get that money from government or wherever.
You don't just tell people, sorry you are SOL, you didn't play the game our way even though you didn't know the rules to begin with!!
Also, Weight Wise is supposed to be part of a provincial iniative to lower obesity rates...shoudln't this also qualify me for help of some kind?
Fiona
I was told by my GP at the time that it would take three to five years period to get the surgery that I needed. He also said that because I was not the largest person in line, that it could take much longer. I have worked with dieticians and have been successful to some degree, just couldn't get all the way there. With immediate family members dying at 40 from heart attacks, I just didn't feel I should take the chance and wait.
Of course I did research and believed first of all that the surgery would not be as difficult as it was, that i wouldn't have those complications in multiples right away and that I would get the proper support from the Quebec team.
I also had tremendous faith in the Alberta health care system (funny I know) that should I need it, it would be there to help me. By paying for my surgery, I freed up a spot in the line at Weight Wise. And actually, my tax dollars pay for that program anyway - why shouldn't I have access to it? Is it a better use of tax dollars to have me have to go to the ER regularly to get IVs for dehydration?
In Canada we have a universal health care system where discrimination should not be permitted. If they said, we want you to pay such and such to access Weight Wise support, I would seriously try to come up with the money and I have even asked the Quebec surgeon to put in place a system where they could pay for the aftercare if you are out of province to a simliar program like Weight Wise.
No one should have to lose 50 pounds in less than three months, vomit several times a day for two months not knowing why or most importantly, have her children see her cry and become extremely depressed because they are so ill and unable to live normally.
If more money is needed to accomodate people in an aftercare program for Weight Wise, lets work to get that money from government or wherever.
You don't just tell people, sorry you are SOL, you didn't play the game our way even though you didn't know the rules to begin with!!
Also, Weight Wise is supposed to be part of a provincial iniative to lower obesity rates...shoudln't this also qualify me for help of some kind?
Fiona
The clinic will only do 100 surgery's per year. The patients need to see a dietitian, internist, counselor, nurse and attend an eating after surgery course before they are considered. This team then decides what surgery is most suited for you if any. This process is around 1 year long once in the clinic. I took 1 year to get in after my referral from my GP. People really need to know what they are in for. I have meet people who gone thru the WW clinic and lost 100 pounds just with the help they recieved, So not everyone gets surgery.
I guess we will agree to disagree.
With that being said I don't know if you are in Edmonton or Calgary. I have heard people talking about Dr. Nohr In Red deer, maybe he can help you? Also there is a bariatric group on yahoo who also meet once a month in Edmonton at the RA hospital. They are mostly Bypass patients and have a wealth of knowledge and experience, not all have come thru the WW clinic so they have had different Dr.s and may be of some help to you. You need to have a yahoo account to access this group . Once you sign in they will confirm you as a member. It could take awhile as it is ran by members only. If you live in Edmonton and would like to know the next date of the meeting please let me know and I will gladly sent it to you, please PM me thru my obesityhelp profile.
Tammy
I guess we will agree to disagree.
With that being said I don't know if you are in Edmonton or Calgary. I have heard people talking about Dr. Nohr In Red deer, maybe he can help you? Also there is a bariatric group on yahoo who also meet once a month in Edmonton at the RA hospital. They are mostly Bypass patients and have a wealth of knowledge and experience, not all have come thru the WW clinic so they have had different Dr.s and may be of some help to you. You need to have a yahoo account to access this group . Once you sign in they will confirm you as a member. It could take awhile as it is ran by members only. If you live in Edmonton and would like to know the next date of the meeting please let me know and I will gladly sent it to you, please PM me thru my obesityhelp profile.
Tammy
Thank you both for your suggestions. I am in Edmonton but was told that the support group at the RA is only open to WW people - so I am glad to hear this may not be true.
I also went through a process of dieticians, counselling, changing the way I ate etc. before the surgery, but I must admit it wasn't mandated by my surgeon, but something I thought was best to do in advance. I wanted to be sure that surgery was another tool I really needed to nip this problem in the bud.
Maybe the ER docs and others are wrong, perhaps there is a surgeon willing to do aftercare...but so far they are all saying no way.
If nothing else, I hope people considering any type of WLS will read my post and know that there are significant consequences to choosing a surgeon outside your residence. Perhaps consumers who choose to pay for out of province surgery will band together or at least insist they receive the proper post op care from their surgeon before they pay the whole bill.
Fiona
I also went through a process of dieticians, counselling, changing the way I ate etc. before the surgery, but I must admit it wasn't mandated by my surgeon, but something I thought was best to do in advance. I wanted to be sure that surgery was another tool I really needed to nip this problem in the bud.
Maybe the ER docs and others are wrong, perhaps there is a surgeon willing to do aftercare...but so far they are all saying no way.
If nothing else, I hope people considering any type of WLS will read my post and know that there are significant consequences to choosing a surgeon outside your residence. Perhaps consumers who choose to pay for out of province surgery will band together or at least insist they receive the proper post op care from their surgeon before they pay the whole bill.
Fiona
Hi Fiona,
Thank you for your post. And I am so sorry to hear how ill you have been. I do have to admit, I too have frustrations with the WW clinic. I have been considering surgery for the past year. My family GP has refered me 2 times now to the Calgary WW Clinic, and I have been declined both times...get this, because I am "only" overweight...no secondary problems (high blood pressure, cholesterol,ect...). I am not "only" overweight, I am 200 lbs overweight!! They will not even put me on a waiting list, they flat out refused to take me on as a client at all. With the help of my family GP, we have decided that the best surgery for me....after extensive research, is VSG. There is only one Dr. in canada that will do it...Dr. Christou, and only as a first of two procedures. (The VSG, followed by RNY) He said he would reluctantly do it for me for $18,500 as a one step procedure.
That all being said, I could go to Mexico, have a better trained, more experienced, leading in his field surgeon do it for me for $9750.00. Either way it is an out of pocket expense..of which Alberta Health will only cover $1200 max, for out of country/provice care.....even though NO ONE in Alberta can perform the surgery.
I think that our Health Care System is falling a part, FAST!! There are many people like you and I who have gone to extreme lengths to try and get healthy, to lessen the burden on the Health System, and your correct.....give up you spot in the ever lengthening WW waiting line, only to be chastised for not "following protocol"!!
Give me strength!! I wish you all the best in finding someone to help you out and will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers!!
Thank you for your post. And I am so sorry to hear how ill you have been. I do have to admit, I too have frustrations with the WW clinic. I have been considering surgery for the past year. My family GP has refered me 2 times now to the Calgary WW Clinic, and I have been declined both times...get this, because I am "only" overweight...no secondary problems (high blood pressure, cholesterol,ect...). I am not "only" overweight, I am 200 lbs overweight!! They will not even put me on a waiting list, they flat out refused to take me on as a client at all. With the help of my family GP, we have decided that the best surgery for me....after extensive research, is VSG. There is only one Dr. in canada that will do it...Dr. Christou, and only as a first of two procedures. (The VSG, followed by RNY) He said he would reluctantly do it for me for $18,500 as a one step procedure.
That all being said, I could go to Mexico, have a better trained, more experienced, leading in his field surgeon do it for me for $9750.00. Either way it is an out of pocket expense..of which Alberta Health will only cover $1200 max, for out of country/provice care.....even though NO ONE in Alberta can perform the surgery.
I think that our Health Care System is falling a part, FAST!! There are many people like you and I who have gone to extreme lengths to try and get healthy, to lessen the burden on the Health System, and your correct.....give up you spot in the ever lengthening WW waiting line, only to be chastised for not "following protocol"!!
Give me strength!! I wish you all the best in finding someone to help you out and will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers!!
Thanks for your message, if you would like to PM me I would be happy to share a bit about my experience in Montreal...good and bad so that you can be as prepared as possible. That is what I paid for just the RNY bypass...
I don't think Dr. Christou is just about the money, when I hear this from you...but it sure felt like that to me post op and now. Bottom line is he has trained at least one of the top surgeons in Edmonton and many others across Canada...he has a stellar reputation and Mary, his assistant is a good and caring person. Blunt as heck too, but I admire that.
Fiona
I don't think Dr. Christou is just about the money, when I hear this from you...but it sure felt like that to me post op and now. Bottom line is he has trained at least one of the top surgeons in Edmonton and many others across Canada...he has a stellar reputation and Mary, his assistant is a good and caring person. Blunt as heck too, but I admire that.
Fiona
HI. To my knowledge, the Calgary clinic is no longer a functioning option for anyone. They do not take referrals any longer , so Edmonton, Dr. Farries in Red Deer and Dr. Nohr in Medicine Hat are our Alberta options.
The Edmonton clinic is now doing the sleeve surgery, they just started .
i agree our system really has a long way to go before it is really helpfull in a timely manner.
I was on the Calgary list for three years and then the Edmonton list . I got feed up and booked to have self- pay surgery in Arizona...I fought for funding with Alberta Health care but was denied.
Two days before I was to leave for Arizona I got a call from Edmonton and because I had taken all the classes etc in Calgary and done several months work with a psycholoigist in Arizona , had my heart tests and blood work all done in prep for Arizona, they were able to fast track me and I got my surgery on Nov19th I had the Realize band.
The emotional trauma and frustration a person goes through waiting for surgery and trying to work with all these clinics can be heart breaking but now that i am finally in the system I think I am receiving good care but the follow up programs in Alberta are far from adequate. There are no support group meetings set up by the clinics or physicians so everyone kind of just does the best they can with forums like this and visits with the dietician etc.
I hope that everyone on this board will get the help they need . Do not give up and for the girl who had out of province surgery.....start hounding Alberta Health care to helo you find a solution. I would also get in touch with your guy in Montreal and make sure he is aware of your problems. A little call to the Board of physicians and surgeons in that province might help too.
Eydie
The Edmonton clinic is now doing the sleeve surgery, they just started .
i agree our system really has a long way to go before it is really helpfull in a timely manner.
I was on the Calgary list for three years and then the Edmonton list . I got feed up and booked to have self- pay surgery in Arizona...I fought for funding with Alberta Health care but was denied.
Two days before I was to leave for Arizona I got a call from Edmonton and because I had taken all the classes etc in Calgary and done several months work with a psycholoigist in Arizona , had my heart tests and blood work all done in prep for Arizona, they were able to fast track me and I got my surgery on Nov19th I had the Realize band.
The emotional trauma and frustration a person goes through waiting for surgery and trying to work with all these clinics can be heart breaking but now that i am finally in the system I think I am receiving good care but the follow up programs in Alberta are far from adequate. There are no support group meetings set up by the clinics or physicians so everyone kind of just does the best they can with forums like this and visits with the dietician etc.
I hope that everyone on this board will get the help they need . Do not give up and for the girl who had out of province surgery.....start hounding Alberta Health care to helo you find a solution. I would also get in touch with your guy in Montreal and make sure he is aware of your problems. A little call to the Board of physicians and surgeons in that province might help too.
Eydie
342/298/280175 highest / surgery wtNov 19/08/ current/ goal
Fiona,my name is Cindy, I had RNY with Dr. Davey in April of 07. This WLS was a revision for me, Dr. D did the original VBG on me 14 yrs ago. This surgery came apart and I slowly regained all weight lost. I was a so called lightweight to start. Started at 242lbs and am now 168lbs. I also just had a panni done 2 days ago, part of an extra perk that goes along with having the surgery done in Alberta. I belong to the weight wise support group at the Royal Alex, we meet once a month and no you don't have to be an Alberta patient. Our next meeting is in Feb on the 9th at 5:30pm in the conference room on the main floor of the building where the dieticians have there offices. I would suggest you come, we are a wealth of knowledge and can give you the support that you need. Our meetings are quite informal, intros and talking about personal experiences. Belonging to our support group is the first lady in alberta to have the VSG.
Most of our experiences vary, most are RNY some lap band. We also have people who moved to our province that had there WLS elsewhere. If you had known about our group before you may have decided to wait your time out and have your surgery done in Alberta. Many of us (myself included) know this system inside out and know first hand what you will face if you go outside. Also, there are many benefits to waiting and having it done here, besides the support, after about 18months if weight is stable or still losing you can have a tummy tuck - paid for by AHC. Just what I had done 2 days ago.
You should come to our support group mtg and get feeling better about yourself and what you have done - no matter where you had the surgery. As lacrose mom posted to you we also have an online support group that you can register and join, the address is http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EdmontonBSG
Good luck to you, the worst is over, your problems are some of those that many of us have experienced, just learning how to deal with them is the solution.
Cindy
Most of our experiences vary, most are RNY some lap band. We also have people who moved to our province that had there WLS elsewhere. If you had known about our group before you may have decided to wait your time out and have your surgery done in Alberta. Many of us (myself included) know this system inside out and know first hand what you will face if you go outside. Also, there are many benefits to waiting and having it done here, besides the support, after about 18months if weight is stable or still losing you can have a tummy tuck - paid for by AHC. Just what I had done 2 days ago.
You should come to our support group mtg and get feeling better about yourself and what you have done - no matter where you had the surgery. As lacrose mom posted to you we also have an online support group that you can register and join, the address is http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EdmontonBSG
Good luck to you, the worst is over, your problems are some of those that many of us have experienced, just learning how to deal with them is the solution.
Cindy
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