Can anyone eat a whole cheeseburger????
I hope that none of you are truly leaving this thread upset 
On that note, I have to say I see BOTH sides of the opinions expressed here this far. I can see wanting to be "normal" and eat normal things from time to time. I can also see people concerned with others food choices. I respect both sides.
For me, I think that we all need to re-assess what "normal" is. (Just my humble opinion, please don't rip me).
Normal preop for most of us was full of McDonald's and other fast foods, it was full of lack of ability to say no to what is for some considered "normal". A cheeseburger once in a while is not (again in my humble opinion) going to be a problem for most people. But we also need to remember that being prone to obesity is part genetics and part our own personal choices and ability or inability to walk away from certain things. When we are new postop's, we are still in the middle of our struggle with obesity. We are adapting to new pouches. We NEED to be trying our best to walk away from old habits that do die hard. Is it easy? Certainly not. Is it possible? Yes it certainly is.
This surgery is a gift and like every other gift we can be given, it can be used wisely or poorly. We can trick ourselves very easily into blaming the surgeon or whatever if this gift fails us. All of us have failed ourselves in our non-surgical attempts at weight loss. Why on earth would we want to sabatoge ourselves POST surgery? This I don't understand.
I admit it does tick me off a bit when I hear of people (not particularly this thread, but on the board in general) decieving themselves into thinking they are going to be "normal". "Normal" for so many people means that they can have anything in moderation at any time without penalty. Well if you had a body that allowed that preop (some people just do! these people do not gain weight) then obviously we wouldn't be here to begin with, no?
"Normal" for us postop's is never going to be what is normal for non WLS patients. I think that many people need to learn to accept that fact, it is our reality. "Normal" for us is learning what our bodies need to fuel us. Normal for us is learning what is going to bring our weight back and how to avoid that. Normal for us is realizing that there are many many evil foods out there that taste good on the tongue but do NOT feel good on our hips. Our butts. Our thighs. Our arms. etc.
Having said that, we are all human and food is a part of all of our worlds. I think anyone who insists they will never again eat a "unwise food choice" is also decieving themselves.
I think we all need to remember that there is a very fine line drawn in the sand for us after surgery. I would hate to see ANYONE on this board have to come here for support 3-4-5 years down the line because their weight has come back. I can't imagine how that would feel after all we go through physically and mentally to have this surgery and to succeed with it.
I also want to say that I think the term "moderation" is different for us as well. Let's face it, each and every one of us found this site for support because we DID NOT KNOW what "moderation" for us had to be! And certainly "moderation" takes on a whole new concept postop. Moderation isn't eating one cookie at a time instead of the bag. It's eating one cookie once in a blue moon because we truly want to have that taste and we know we won't sabatoge ourselves, and we can walk away after just one.
Being realistic, I don't believe us newbies (and I do include myself in this) should be pushing the envelope at all. We all have a small window of opportunity to use the rapid weight loss period early out to achieve our goals. I'm sure every one of us has bitten into something that we know we shouldn't have by now. We are human as I said! But I also think that we all darn well know that by doing that we ARE decieving ourselves. We are NOT normal eaters. We are obese people in shrinking bodies who have an obese person's mindset and who are going to struggle at times to follow what we know we need to follow. We will have setbacks. We may even get ticked off if others say "hey, wait! whatcha doing?". But the bottom line (in my opinion again) is, "Hey, wait! Whatcha doing?" because ultimatly we are all coming from the same place and want each and every one of us standing at the end of the race at the finish line marked "Success! Reached GOAL!".
I think sometimes we do need a reality check. Maybe immediatly it will be offensive. Maybe some people aren't ready to hear that "normal" for many others is NOT normal for us. That doesn't make us abnormal, it just makes us different. I wish to god we all had motablisms that allow us to enjoy our favorite unhealthy choice foods without penalty. Let's face it everyone. We just aren't made that way. And each time we revert to our previous mindset, we are conning ourselves the same way we conned ourselves our whole lives, thus leading us to the path of weight loss surgery to begin with.
Of course we are going to nibble a french fry again or a cheeseburger etc. We all make our own choices. Maybe we feel it is okay to eat part of a burger or cheesy potatoes from time to time. Maybe we know that we are down a ton of weight, have been working out regularly, making perfect food choices for months on end, and for one meal we break the "golden rule" and indulge. If we know that we are ready to indulge "periodically" without relearning old patterns, I call that SUCCESS. If we are conning ourselves and making these poor choices often and sabotaging ourselves, well that is just heartbreaking.
So bottom line, in my opinion, I think people here need to watch their words carefully as to not offend or judge others. We are all in this together, I certainly don't believe anyone comes here to pass judgement, I believe all of our hearts are in the right place. Yet we can all at times be sure that we will step on someone's toes. Or perhaps not see the whole picture and jump to conclusions. To the defense of those offended by the dreaded "eating of the cheeseburger", I don't take offense to your statements if they are directed at someone who is overdoing the indulgence, to someone who is messing up and eating around the pouch. Please just be sure that you know the total picture for jumping down someone's throat with your "opinions" without knowing the whole picture. And if I ever come here and prove to you all that I am sabotaging myself (versus the odd indulgence), please rip me rip me rip me because I'd love you for it in the end.
Melissa ... who admits that the cookie example was because I have twice since surgery indulged in a (single) Dad's oatmeal cookie. It was conciously done and not regretted or guilted over. I know I'm working my surgeon's program, busting my butt in the gym and those two times eating a cookie with my milk? (another no no, I'm aware 
) I know for me it isn't a habit anymore nor will it ever be again! My birthday is in December and I already have that day in mind for my next treat: a yummy McDonald's cheeseburger (minus the bun )
On that note, I have to say I see BOTH sides of the opinions expressed here this far. I can see wanting to be "normal" and eat normal things from time to time. I can also see people concerned with others food choices. I respect both sides.
For me, I think that we all need to re-assess what "normal" is. (Just my humble opinion, please don't rip me).
Normal preop for most of us was full of McDonald's and other fast foods, it was full of lack of ability to say no to what is for some considered "normal". A cheeseburger once in a while is not (again in my humble opinion) going to be a problem for most people. But we also need to remember that being prone to obesity is part genetics and part our own personal choices and ability or inability to walk away from certain things. When we are new postop's, we are still in the middle of our struggle with obesity. We are adapting to new pouches. We NEED to be trying our best to walk away from old habits that do die hard. Is it easy? Certainly not. Is it possible? Yes it certainly is.
This surgery is a gift and like every other gift we can be given, it can be used wisely or poorly. We can trick ourselves very easily into blaming the surgeon or whatever if this gift fails us. All of us have failed ourselves in our non-surgical attempts at weight loss. Why on earth would we want to sabatoge ourselves POST surgery? This I don't understand.
I admit it does tick me off a bit when I hear of people (not particularly this thread, but on the board in general) decieving themselves into thinking they are going to be "normal". "Normal" for so many people means that they can have anything in moderation at any time without penalty. Well if you had a body that allowed that preop (some people just do! these people do not gain weight) then obviously we wouldn't be here to begin with, no?
"Normal" for us postop's is never going to be what is normal for non WLS patients. I think that many people need to learn to accept that fact, it is our reality. "Normal" for us is learning what our bodies need to fuel us. Normal for us is learning what is going to bring our weight back and how to avoid that. Normal for us is realizing that there are many many evil foods out there that taste good on the tongue but do NOT feel good on our hips. Our butts. Our thighs. Our arms. etc.
Having said that, we are all human and food is a part of all of our worlds. I think anyone who insists they will never again eat a "unwise food choice" is also decieving themselves.
I think we all need to remember that there is a very fine line drawn in the sand for us after surgery. I would hate to see ANYONE on this board have to come here for support 3-4-5 years down the line because their weight has come back. I can't imagine how that would feel after all we go through physically and mentally to have this surgery and to succeed with it.
I also want to say that I think the term "moderation" is different for us as well. Let's face it, each and every one of us found this site for support because we DID NOT KNOW what "moderation" for us had to be! And certainly "moderation" takes on a whole new concept postop. Moderation isn't eating one cookie at a time instead of the bag. It's eating one cookie once in a blue moon because we truly want to have that taste and we know we won't sabatoge ourselves, and we can walk away after just one.
Being realistic, I don't believe us newbies (and I do include myself in this) should be pushing the envelope at all. We all have a small window of opportunity to use the rapid weight loss period early out to achieve our goals. I'm sure every one of us has bitten into something that we know we shouldn't have by now. We are human as I said! But I also think that we all darn well know that by doing that we ARE decieving ourselves. We are NOT normal eaters. We are obese people in shrinking bodies who have an obese person's mindset and who are going to struggle at times to follow what we know we need to follow. We will have setbacks. We may even get ticked off if others say "hey, wait! whatcha doing?". But the bottom line (in my opinion again) is, "Hey, wait! Whatcha doing?" because ultimatly we are all coming from the same place and want each and every one of us standing at the end of the race at the finish line marked "Success! Reached GOAL!".
I think sometimes we do need a reality check. Maybe immediatly it will be offensive. Maybe some people aren't ready to hear that "normal" for many others is NOT normal for us. That doesn't make us abnormal, it just makes us different. I wish to god we all had motablisms that allow us to enjoy our favorite unhealthy choice foods without penalty. Let's face it everyone. We just aren't made that way. And each time we revert to our previous mindset, we are conning ourselves the same way we conned ourselves our whole lives, thus leading us to the path of weight loss surgery to begin with.
Of course we are going to nibble a french fry again or a cheeseburger etc. We all make our own choices. Maybe we feel it is okay to eat part of a burger or cheesy potatoes from time to time. Maybe we know that we are down a ton of weight, have been working out regularly, making perfect food choices for months on end, and for one meal we break the "golden rule" and indulge. If we know that we are ready to indulge "periodically" without relearning old patterns, I call that SUCCESS. If we are conning ourselves and making these poor choices often and sabotaging ourselves, well that is just heartbreaking.
So bottom line, in my opinion, I think people here need to watch their words carefully as to not offend or judge others. We are all in this together, I certainly don't believe anyone comes here to pass judgement, I believe all of our hearts are in the right place. Yet we can all at times be sure that we will step on someone's toes. Or perhaps not see the whole picture and jump to conclusions. To the defense of those offended by the dreaded "eating of the cheeseburger", I don't take offense to your statements if they are directed at someone who is overdoing the indulgence, to someone who is messing up and eating around the pouch. Please just be sure that you know the total picture for jumping down someone's throat with your "opinions" without knowing the whole picture. And if I ever come here and prove to you all that I am sabotaging myself (versus the odd indulgence), please rip me rip me rip me because I'd love you for it in the end.
Melissa ... who admits that the cookie example was because I have twice since surgery indulged in a (single) Dad's oatmeal cookie. It was conciously done and not regretted or guilted over. I know I'm working my surgeon's program, busting my butt in the gym and those two times eating a cookie with my milk? (another no no, I'm aware ) I know for me it isn't a habit anymore nor will it ever be again! My birthday is in December and I already have that day in mind for my next treat: a yummy McDonald's cheeseburger (minus the bun ) What a great post!
Personally, I have my own definition of "normal" and "moderation." My views on these two words is that I will be able to eat healthy foods in the portion sizes that will keep me satisfied but not sickly full. I will be able to have the occasional fast-food meal (although after watching "Super-Size Me," my idea of fast food has dramatically changed).
I think everyone has the right goal in mind...health...it's just that how we all get there is a matter of opinion. Right now, we're all still adjusting to what works for us, both physically and emotionally, and each one of us is unique.
From someone who is still just trying to live with all the complications I have had It is all I can do to get in 34 oz of water and some soup. My goal is not and never has been weight loss, but rather to be healthy. I am not loosing fast because of the small amount of calories I can get in. I do not weigh unless I go to the doctor's office.
It looks to me that we all have different goals and expectations from this surgery. Therefore, we all are using different means to achieve our end goals. We should all be supportive of each other. None of us are ready for translation, and none of us can say what might happen to us in the future. I am just happy to be alive at this point and still trying to heal an ulcer. I envy those of you who can eat.
Lisa:
While I have a feeling I may get flamed (and could care less if I do) I have to say - DON'T stress over it.
I get so fed up with self righteous people - who talk about how they never eat things not on their doctor's plan, who can't understand why anyone would eat a hamburger, pizza, etc.
Knowledge is a tool - to be given of freely - but for knowledge to be helpful to others - it has to be provided in a positive, informative matter. Those who choose to all knowing critical of others choices, and self righteous - are NOT being supportive. In my opinion - they actually do more harm then good.
That said - life is too short to kick yourself over eating a whole McD's hamburger - which cooked weight is less then 4 ounces....And - if you ate all the fries instead of the burger - it is NOT a problem - if you have a varied diet.
For those who are going to tell me that I am sabotaging myself - I have to say that I have lost right at 60 pounds since 7/15. I have had blood work done twice and all of various tests show I am doing great....And guess what else - I drink alcohol....OMG - my pouch is going to explode and my liver is going to harden...
Last - but not least - I envy you being able to eat a hamburger - I can't stomach the ground beef or the bread!!!
Anne
IrishIze
on 9/30/04 11:43 pm - NJ
on 9/30/04 11:43 pm - NJ
Well you can flame me too - and you have. I never called anyone names suggesting they were self-righteous or thought themselves to be 'professionals'. That was unfair to people who were only trying to help.
I have apologized if I stepped on any toes, and explained that it was done out of genuine concern and truly meant to be supportive.
I have been on the July board since way before my surgery, and it always felt like family here. I don't think anyone could say I haven't been supportive to people here. I kept the list of people and their surgery dates for the entire month and was happy to do it because I felt a cameraderie with all of you. I've tried to respond to any post where I might be able to add a word of encouragement. Well, like Pamela, I'm a bit hurt that my genuine concern has been taken as a self-righteous comment. If I didn't sugar-coat my comments enough, again, I'm sorry.
Perhaps I should have just said that I know I'll lose weight now, but down the road when I can pretty much eat whatever I want, I'd rather not be in the habit of grabbing fast food.
'Nuff said as far as I'm concerned......
Hugs,
Nancy
-50
Hey, Nancy...
You're right. You have been VERY supportive this entire time. I remember how you posted the surgeries for the day, and were worried that it wouldn't get done while you were in your own surgery.
I went back and re-read the posts from this thread, and I realized that your first post really wasn't off-putting. I think I was just in a bad mood because of Debra's post, and when I read that you agreed with her, it just set me off.
And I probably wouldn't have even been all that upset about Deb's post, except that everywhere I turn, I have people who think they know more about my individual desires and needs than I do. It just bent me the wrong way...
Pamela
Ya know, I have been there. I can eat almost 3/4 of a Krystal.
In reply to some of the other posts -- I was given a list of the foods that I should be able to tolerate at certain weeks. All of the different ingredients that are on the hamburger are on that list. If you choose to eat a hamburger for your meal then I imagin that is all you would eat for a while. I know I know some of you are thinking that you are not getting your protein in or that is too many calories and fat. We are going to have to live the rest of our lives with what we have done to ourselves as far as portion and the absorption issue. How we choose to deal with it will make our lives easier. If anyone thinks that for one moment they can live the rest of there lives with out eating something that is lower in protein and higher in taste then they are only fooling theirselves. I believe that sure we should try to make the right choices for the protein and vitamins but you also have to live.
Okay, You guys have shut me up, i wont post anymore.
I thought a little good advice would do you some good, but im still standing my ground that fast food is evil to someone trying to lose weight. Do you know how much fat is in most fast foods? Maybe if I was at my goal I might want to try it. But I still cant figure out why you would go to all the trouble of having surgery to lose weight, and get healthy, and then go eat fast food. Im sorry I dont ever mean to sound like a prude, i was just , as always trying to help, so i wont help anymore. This is goodbye. Oh and thank you Nancy for your support.
~Debra
IrishIze
on 10/2/04 1:46 am - NJ
on 10/2/04 1:46 am - NJ
Debra - please don't go. The majority of people who posted agreed that they didn't think it was the healthiest choice - perhaps you and I expressed our concern a little too forcifully. I think everyone knows here that we care about each other, and we're all finding our paths through this new way of life.
I was shocked by what they were eating because I am still struggling to get tuna or chicken down!! More often than not, I'm still on a pureed diet and have a very finicky pouch, so I can't imagine eating a MickeyD's hamburger (but I sure would love to)!
What bothers me more are the people who name call and get nasty and mean-spirited - not only on this thread, but on another recent one the 'cheeseburger thread' was mentioned and the poster didn't want self-righteous people to reply because she KNEW they were going to fall off the wagon so nah-nah-nah. She also felt the need to call names such as: " inconsiderate, cold, unfeeling, uncompassionate, thoughtless nut case(s)!"
I won't respond to that poster's posts - IMO, that is being mean just for the sake of being mean. The cheeseburger post had nothing to do with her. I apologized if I had offended anyone and it should have been over and done with. Some people just like to stir the pot.
In retrospect, I might have been a little gentler about the way I expressed myself, and I think Pamela understands that I wasn't in any way trying to be mean....
Please stay....
Hugs,
Nancy
-51
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