BIG OLE CAN OF WORMS?

I hope that they are gummied and sugar-free but they maybe sour...... I don't post much here anymore. I lurk maybe a couple of times every month or so. I read the post that are posted here and I leave in deep thought and intend to come back and respond...I have typed this response on serveral occasions and then deleted it for fear of being flamed beyond recognition. All fear aside here goes... I read the post about marriages braking up and people gaining weight. I just wanted to share my take on these subjects. Marriage- I think that we all know that once you say "I do" that love goes from being 90% feelings and 10% work to being 30% feelings and 70% work. relationships are hard at times and even at times unbearable. I have only been married for 4 years. I was 266lbs before I had my surgery and I have lost 141lbs.. This has at times cause problems in my marriage being that my husband is about 50-60lbs overweight. With that being said there are a lot of problems that we face that would have come up if I lost weight or not. We made a commitment and took vows before God! Being a God fearing women that means more to me than a passing feeling that I could dig my heels in on. I know that there are times that I give in on things that I feel I could make a stand on. That is what marriage is about, give and take. What does it say about the person that will stick with things when they are heavy that they find intolerable when they are thin. It would be very easy for me at times to throw my hands in the air and say that this is not working for me. Divorce is something that is so common is our society that you can find it advertised everywhere. I have faith in believing that through prayer and understanding We (My husband and I) can make it through whatever problems come our way. I believe that to be the case for any married couple. Gaining weight- I have read serveral post about people not being able to lose any weight and I feel for them. I can imagine what my self-esteem would be like if I went through all of this and was not able to get to my goal weight. However, again I also read about the daily eating habits and how they are a lot like the ones before surgery. This is a great tool!!!!! I would do this all over again in a heartbeat. Like I said I have lost 141lbs and now weigh 125lbs from 266lbs.. But the honeymoon is over and now it is up to me to do the work that is required to keep it off. Don't get me wrong I have my bad days and make some really bad food choices sometimes. I don't sit back and wonder why I am gaining or not losing when I do this though. I am not looking to make any enimies really I am not! We all know that we used food to deal with a lot of our problems. Now that we can't do that anymore we have to find another way to deal. That changes everything and every aspect of our lives. We had people telling us that before we had surgery. We made up our minds to do this and some of us even went through hell fighting with the insurance companies to get this done. We didn't settle then and we shouldn't settle now. If you are eating everything the way you should and you are exercising then I am not directing this at you and I wish you all of the success in the world. But if your not...don't wonder why it is not working or what is wrong with you unless you are ready to hear it. I hope that I in no way, shape, or form, insulted anyone or hurt any feelings. Mike wrote in an earlier post lets get real with ourselves. That is all I was trying to do. Do understand that this is just my opinion and I am not trying to pu**** on anyone else. I was just joining the threads. You can let the torches be lit and start your flaming now. Shannon The Irish Lassie 266/125 -141lbs. gone forever

A big hello and hearty welcome to you Shannon!! It's been a while since I've seen a post from you and I can't remember whether I've seen your posts here or on another board. One thing I've learned in my time on this board is that we don't waste our time and energy on flame wars!! Everyone here seems to try to respect everyone elses opinion and nobody goes out of their way to offend others. I'm sure that occasionally we post something that bothers someone else, but I have never seen deliberate flaming here!! Now on to your post: I for one congratulate you on some straight talk! I happen to agree with your views on both marriage and weight loss. Both require a great deal of work. I have been married for 24 years and they have not all been smooth sailing. My wife and I signed on for the long haul and try to work our way over the rough spots. As for the weight loss issues, Yes the honeymoon is over and the hard work begins here!! Having said all of this, I think that we also need to consider the matter from other points of view. I think that saying hard work is the answer is absolutely true, but it is also over-simplifying some complex issues! I know for a fact that some overweight people get into relationships for the wrong reasons to begin with. They feel lonely and unloved and anyone is better than no one. When they lose the weight and develop some self-esteem (maybe for the first time) they realize that their relationship has no sound basis to build on. In some cases, it's the partner or spouse that can't handle the changes in the post-op spouse. There are many other causes other than just "Taking the easy way out" and we need to recognize this fact. On the post-op eating issues, we must face the fact that we are human and as such less than perfect. Lets face it, If we always did the right thing with our eating, we would not be here in the first place!! We all have more than out fair share of weakness and sometimes hard work is just too damn difficult to sustain. This is where this community of ours comes into play. We need to understand that we all will slip up occasionally and need encouragement to get back on our feet and back to all of that hard work. This post-op road is much smoother when we have friends to help us over the speed bumps. You won't find a "Friendlier" place to cheer your success and support you when you fail!! It sounds like you have done a great job. Congratulations, keep up the good work, and keep posting!! Mike

Hi Shannon, I don't think you have opened a can of worms at all. This board, like Mike said does not & never has flamed anyone for their opinion (that I know of) & we certainly will not start now. You are welcome to post whatever you like at anytime. We always like hearing from some of our lurkers as it always gives a different point of view. I agree with you this is work now & yes, this board gets us through the roungh times. Please don't feel you have to stay away. You have done a great job & would like to hear what you eat in a day. You can e-mail me privately if you want. I am just curious what your day might consist of. Your words of wisdom have been great!! Thanks again. Marilyn, the Bearlady

Good to see you back here Shannon! I'm one of those on the divorce issue you've no doubt read about. Not too long ago I'd have been standing behind you cheering you on because coming from a Christian perspective, I totally agree with you. The problem comes when you start to uncover the layers of things that have kept you unhappy for years, and start to face some things you'll never ever be able to change. For me, there is one issue that I simply cannot go on a public forum and express about why my marriage is failing. What I will say is that I appreciate your perspective, but sometimes it isn't a matter of working it out anymore. Sometimes things happen to us that we accept when we are very heavy because of fear. As we lose those layers, and the degradation has gotten unbearable, those things that you accepted and/or ignored are once again a big deal. Especially if evidence of those things continue to show themselves. I know I sound cryptic, but I can't express more without disparaging my husband in public, and I don't want to do that. I don't hate him, but the things that have happened have damaged things beyond repair. So come from the perspective that some of us aren't telling the whole story. Then realize that many of us are Christians. Then put yourself in a position where you might consider divorce...and pretend that is what has happened to those of us who are now in the throes of divorce. Very few people in this world would endure absolultely anything in a marriage without considering divorce, so what I'm asking of you is to imagine what that would be for you, and then accept that sometimes those things happen to others. Biblically there are things that permit grounds for divorce. Those aren't the only reasons some Christians would seek one out though. If a woman's husband beat her and her kids to a bloody pulp every day, I would encourage her to get a divorce. Better to be alive and spare your kids and have possibly committed a sin of divorce without biblical grounds than to stay in it and die. Sins can be forgiven. So it boils down to perspective. I know some Christians ostracize other Christians for getting a divorce. It is as if it is the ultimate cardinal sin. Even without biblical grounds, the sin is no greater than other sins. I'm not saying "hey, do what you want when you want....whatever feels good." But I am saying that sometimes we have to make tough choices that cause us great distress. I'm definitely not a pro-divorce person. I always believed I would stay the course forever. That was my intent. My husband even brought it up 5 years ago and my response to him was that I couldn't stop him, but that I wouldn't willingly go for it. But like I said, layers get peeled away and you start to realize that even though you never thought you ate out of emotion, maybe you ate out of suppression of emotion. Now you gotta pay the piper. This is not something I can be flip about. It is a long hard road and not easy to accept or navigate. I know some people are flip about marriage and when they discover they are bored they get out. I've tried hard for the last 5 years and at some point you realize that all the trying in the world isn't good enough. It also doesn't help if you are married to a person who doesn't share your faith. My husband doesn't even know if he believes in God. So yes, I'm unequally yolked. But that is the way it is. Can't help that now. And I suspect this is why we've been instructed to not be unequally yolked....because things like this happen. Thanks for posting your perspective. I hope you can see mine. I am not angry with you at all. I think it's important to put this stuff out there to keep us thinking and talking. Dina

Um....well...just a few comments.... You've been married 4 years. Talk to me in about 20 years and lets see how you feel. Being a God fearing person that you are, I can't help but think you are passing judgement on people who feel differently than you. I will never attempt to put myself in the shoes of another. Marriage is about give and take, no question. But if one person were doing all the giving and the other all the taking, how would you feel? If a wife is getting physically beat on a daily basis, no amount of 'prayer and understanding' is going to make it better. Sometimes divorce is the only answer. It just isn't as easy as you think it is. Also, it must be really great to have all the answers as far as keeping your weight off is concerned. Again, it isn't always as easy as you are making it out to be. If you've read the posts, you can see that some of the people on here go through very difficult personal traumas. In other words, life isn't always easy. If the only thing we had to think about was our weight, then we'd be in a perfect world. But we're not. Some of us slip at times. It makes us human. We get on the scale, see our mistake, and correct it. I guess I just feel guilty that you have your life under such amazing control. I'm a single, unemployed mother with 2 kids--one in college and one on her way. I wish I could just sit around and worry about my weight all the time, but I just can't. I have too many other things to worry about as well. And perhaps my weight does flux up and down a little and I make bad choices. I do the best I can, and so does everyone else who writes on here, I'm sure. Don't make people feel bad because they have thoughts of breaking up or leaving their marriages. These people pour their hearts out on here...probably more so than they normally would. I can only try to be supportive given the information they are sharing. I don't live in their houses. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors in anyone's marriage....and neither do you. I am in no position to pass judgement on anyone. Don't be mad....as you said....this is just my opinion. Joanie

i've returned to this thread a few times since it was first posted-i wasn't going to reply-but i am one who has had issues with regaining weight -and i wasn't at goal when the regain started- i don't know if you were around in may june or july when i almost lost my husband not once but twice...i found that my coping skills really suck and that i hadn't changed in that respect-oh i was making better choices but the food was non stop! even eating enough pprotein bars or good things can add weight!suddenly stopping exercise and only walking-from the car to the hospital room and back-worrying desperately about how to pay the mortgage on a house that we bought in december-(going from two incomes to no income!)how to keep the electricity on-putting him in a nursing home for a few weeks-(the head trip there and thinking that it was sposed to be a good thing when it wasn't) worrying about keeping my job-and my own health---let me just say that i became afraid at how little i had changed in my coping skills- i am just now-and it is mid october-he began to get sick in mid april so it has been 6 months--i am just NOW starting to return to the ability to say no to the carbs and extra things that really do not need to be in my life-i am just now starting to actually WANT to exercise again...i am back to where i was in dec jan or feb on the scale so basically i am starting again- not over but "wasted"almost 11 months of having this tool- and-found out that i don't dump on much sugar-wow-that was why i chose rny--i absolutely know how hard i fought insurance and how much i truly soul searched and yet- i put that mcmuffin meal into my mouth and then wonder why am i so stupid-the old habits and feelings are still there if the triggers are--- well- i am maybe not making sense- but i really have to think that those who have had no problems at all should count their blessings and keep their opinions to themselves- as for marriage- i won't even go there -was with my first husband for 26 years!!!!!!!!!!! finally woke up and left...nuff said... yes; it is a free country and this is a public forum...i am not trying to flame--we are all able to express our opinions- i guess maybe i just had to voice mine..... some days i come to the boards and see stupid remarks- then i sit back and think- well--it evidentally is important enough to "X" or they wouldn't feel the need to share-so-i try to learn from it--or realize that they really are crying out for help..... right now, my best friend is in the hospital 300 miles away-almost died before having ER surgery monday-i came on asking for support and got some --tonite i talked to her- she is finally regaining enough coherence to understand some of what i was going thru with michael this summer ( her surgery is somewhat related to his probs)--she is 2 1/2 years out and is back on clear liquids...she lost (239#)almost what you started out at and lies in the hospital with even less of her bowel now...afraid to eat anything.... are you old enough to remember the joe south song "Walk a mile in my shoes"? ok- i am stepping down...sorry- i overstayed on this journey i think--and this is part of why i lurk vs post anymore--cuz i hurt and i need to be able to not be told that i cannot cope-i know that i cannot. JMHO

btw-my regain wasn't only one or two or five pounds-but 23#--i was at 150-yippee! only 25 to goal -when i plummetted back up to 173.... i remain healthy and my labs are good so i am not complaining-but i want to get to the goal-and i will--by the grace of God and the love of my friends...

Hi Shannon, I'm glad to see you here and posting. I applaud your tenacity and drive and congratulate you on your successful marriage. It's too bad that we're not all as blessed. I know someone *****fused to give up on her marriage. She lost 140 pounds after wls and he gained 40. She fought and fought to keep it together. No matter how miserable she was, she wouldn't leave because she was determined to make it work. I offered her a room in my house and even went to pick her up in the middle of the night several times, but she just kept telling me that she couldn't give up on her vows and she refused to get a divorce. Then one night he told her she was an idiot for not taking the van to get serviced and that was the final straw. All the years of frustration, mental abuse and lack of self-esteem bubbled to the surface and she shot him in the head three times. Maybe she should have divorced him after all. I've been given a wonderful gift with this tool and I have more good days than bad, but I do mess up. I decided a few weeks ago that I was going to maintain where I'm at, stop obsessing about the scale and just be happy. Did I make it to my original goal? Nope. Could I make it? Yep. I could if I was a fanatic about every morsel that went into my mouth, if I was a body nazi and if I made myself miserable. I compromised and came out much happier in the end. I weigh 10 pounds more than I originally wanted, but I'm OK with that. I have an occassional sinful food and I'm OK with that also. I stopped beating myself up for being human. Shannon, you seem to have many blessings in life and I'm happy for you. In my old age, I've found that one of the greatest blessings in my own life is to see the shades of gray that life has to offer. Things are not always clear cut and black and white. Sometimes there are gray areas where things are neither right or wrong, but they just are what they are. Hugs, Connie

I believe that the reason God has defined sins for us is not to set us up with rules but to give us warning: "Do 'x' and things will not work out for you as well as I want it to." I don't believe it means you're going to hell, it means instead of the A+ future God intended for you, you downgraded your possibilities to an A-. And the next thing, you drop to a B. And so on, based on our choices. I think God always wants the best for us and we limit our possibilities when we sin. I believe divorce IS a sin, based on the evidence of what happens when you get a divorce - it is a living hell. Everyone loses, it hurts everyone, it is a miserable, miserable process. It doesn't mean nothing good can come out of it - "all things work together for good for them that love the Lord" - but I think God terms divorce a sin to warn us - it's painful. Likewise, however, I believe that staying in a marriage that has no faith, no hope, no love, no charity, no fidelity.. that also is a sin. It is a living lie. Let's see if my theory about the outcome of the action giving it sin status. Living with someone you do not love, for whatever reason, whether it is for the children (as a child of divorce I can tell you I wish they'd done it sooner, all that staying together for my sake made me eat myself over 200 pounds by junior high) or whether it is because you think it's the right thing to do because of religious instruction... if the love is not there, it is not the right thing to do. Staying in a bad marriage doesn't help either spouse, it makes them miserable, it makes their children miserable and sets a horrible example of what love is supposed to be, and it prevents each of them from finding happiness in another situation -- in many cases, just being alone is an improvement. I believe God does want us to be happy. The one last thing I wanted to say in response to the post was in regards to the sentence, "What does it say about the person that will stick with things when they are heavy that they find intolerable when they are thin." What it says is, many of us fatties came from a place where we had ZERO self-esteem. Whether the fat was the cause of our lack of esteem, or just a real nice way of expressing the worthless feelings we had from another source (thanks, Dad), those are the facts. And when you've got no self esteem, you ABSOLUTELY tolerate people and behaviors that no self-respecting person would accept -- because we WEREN'T self respecting. Losing the weight, getting thinner - that is treating the symptoms... deeper than that, for many, many of us I believe having the surgery was the first time we showed SELF LOVE and SELF CARE in a LONG TIME -- maybe it was for the first time EVER. And what happens when you start to care about and invest in yourself? You start valuing yourself, you start respecting yourself, and you start demanding that the quality of the interactions in your life reflect that you are a person that is worth something. And if you got into a relationship when you were fat and desperate, and now you're thin and valuable to yourself and others, it is no surprise that the relationship is threatened and many times just breaks. I don't think that's "wrong" on either parties fault - things change. I believe God loves me and that he wants us to love eachother. Not everyone learns how to love themselves at the same time, and sometime after they figure that one out, then they become capable of loving others.. and if the timing between all these things doesn't work out, that's not something I can control. I certainly am NOT going to stay in a relationship with someone who does not support me, does not value me, ESSENTIALLY DOES NOT LOVE ME.. just because I'm a Christian. I can try to support them and help them grow - but I'm not sacrificing my life to do it. I am just a Christian not Christ himself. PS- One last thought.... If you take a look at the emotional and spiritual maturity, compatability, and consciousness of both partners when they entered the marriage, and there is the ability to determine whether or not the marriage will make it. Most people getting married, don't even know what a marriage is supposed to be for... do they even talk about it? Or do they just envision how much fun playing house will be. Or how many people get married because "they've been together X years, so..." or, "she got pregnant and.." or "I just wanted someone to get me out of that one horse town/take care of me **** off my parents".... I believe it's possible to have a great marriage out of just about any cir****tance, but it's more likely the more consciously it is undertaken and the more emotionally and spiritually equal the spouses are. As a child of divorce, that's my plan and I am sure hoping it works... I would love to marry one man and stay with him the rest of my life. Jen

Ah, Shannon, it has been quite a long time! I am happy for you with your loss of 141 lbs. As for the "gone forever" part -- I wish you the best of luck in keeping it off. Everyone on this Board has done a tremendous job of changing their lives in all regards -- physically, emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually - on their own terms - and each have shared their joy and pain, successes and failures, with the rest of us. We have literally held hands through this journey and even carried each other when necessary. There is much in your post that I wish to respond to but I realized that my response would be a kneejerk reaction founded in personal ideology and I respect this Board and these fine people far too much to denegrate our forum to that level. Let me just say that I am truly happy for your success, both in your weight loss and your marriage. I would encourage you to share your strategies for success so that we may all benefit from that knowledge. Indulging in finger-wagging, especially when coming from a fundamentalist perspective, is not productive nor is it helpful to any of us. All the best, Maureen